Let your Genny Cool Down before Re-Fueling

Submitted: Saturday, Sep 12, 2009 at 21:59
ThreadID: 72211 Views:5241 Replies:20 FollowUps:24
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This occurred in the last couple of days at a Station Stay in the NT. Apparently the owner tried to refuel his generator while it was still hot from running.

He was severely burnt.

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Look closely in the bottom right hand corner. Little kiddie playing. Sent shivers down my spine.

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Be careful out there, everybody.

I'm glad I ain't too scared to be lazy
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Reply By: Road Warrior - Saturday, Sep 12, 2009 at 22:06

Saturday, Sep 12, 2009 at 22:06
:-O

Holy crap!!!

Poor b@stard. Hope he was insured.

Although a fair amount of petrol must have been spilled or spread for it to go up like that...
AnswerID: 382904

Follow Up By: Gone Bush (WA) - Saturday, Sep 12, 2009 at 22:19

Saturday, Sep 12, 2009 at 22:19
Probably pouring from a jerry can.

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Reply By: Member - Axle - Saturday, Sep 12, 2009 at 22:09

Saturday, Sep 12, 2009 at 22:09
Gee!!, Thats one frightening situation!,Gone bush. Petrol vapour , High Temps, Spillage onto red hot manifolds, You name it!, Yes, just have to be bloody careful at times.


Cheers Axle.
AnswerID: 382906

Reply By: Member - Old Girl (QLD) - Saturday, Sep 12, 2009 at 22:11

Saturday, Sep 12, 2009 at 22:11
Puts shivers down my spine. Absolutly nothing left its all gone. Lucky the child wasnt standing close by.
AnswerID: 382907

Reply By: Wherehegon - Saturday, Sep 12, 2009 at 22:13

Saturday, Sep 12, 2009 at 22:13
Wow, how many times have I refuelled the mower when I have been mowing because I have been too lazy to check how much was in it before I started. Would this have been from the heat ?? or possible electrical spark from the genni ?? Either way if due to heat I imagine the mower could do the same thing ?? Hope who ever was hurt is on their way to recovering. Could imagine there would have been some serious burns. Wouldn't have had time to jump clear when it comes to petrol igniting. Pics like this pulls us back in line I reckon and gives us a wakeup call !!!.. regards Steve
AnswerID: 382909

Reply By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Saturday, Sep 12, 2009 at 22:37

Saturday, Sep 12, 2009 at 22:37
Poor bu+++r

We used to refuel our Seagull outboards while they were still running

otherwise we woud have been back down the river we were travelling on.

Just used a 4 ltr can into the tank.

I must be a cat on that guys scale I reckon as we did it dozens of times.

Cheers

AnswerID: 382912

Follow Up By: Twintrail(W.A.) - Saturday, Sep 12, 2009 at 23:28

Saturday, Sep 12, 2009 at 23:28
hi Graham. how many members know about seagull motors. a thing of the past i think. have one my self. its an antique no w off prospecting Tuesday morning couple of weeks .regards twintrail
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Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Saturday, Sep 12, 2009 at 23:47

Saturday, Sep 12, 2009 at 23:47
Yep we had two in the 60s,, one short one long shaft and used to buy prop

springs in 2 dozen boxes LOL

Used to push a 16ft punt up a river for 6 miles and if the river was up could.

take several hours. Punt weighed about a tonne loaded.

Lovely job in the tourist industry.

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FollowupID: 650529

Follow Up By: dbish - Sunday, Sep 13, 2009 at 12:34

Sunday, Sep 13, 2009 at 12:34
British Seagulls I have 4 of them & still use them.
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Reply By: Member - Fred B (NT) - Saturday, Sep 12, 2009 at 22:45

Saturday, Sep 12, 2009 at 22:45
About two weeks ago: A guy was filling plastic gerrycans in the back of his boat, at a servo in Coolalinga (just outside Darwin) when the fuel exploded. Lucky, he had the lid screwed on of the two large 20 ltr cans he had already filled. It was the 5 ltr one that went up from static as he was about to fill it.. Fortunately he only recieved minor burns and a back injury when he was blown out of the boat. Alert staff stopped the pump and used a fire extingusher to put the fire out before it took hold. About $3000 damage to his boat, the cost of an ambulance trip to hospital, some painful burns to the arms, singed eybrows and hair, and some hurt pride.

Don't think he will be filling plastic gerrys in the back of his boat again.... soon!
Fred B
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AnswerID: 382913

Follow Up By: Member - Rob Mac (QLD) - Sunday, Sep 13, 2009 at 09:38

Sunday, Sep 13, 2009 at 09:38
Hi Fred, that's why there is signs at pumps saying to put containers on the ground, loose containers in vehicles do not have a good earthing to vehicle as fuel tanks do.
But people still ignore the signs .
Cheers
Rob Mac
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Follow Up By: fisho64 - Sunday, Sep 13, 2009 at 14:26

Sunday, Sep 13, 2009 at 14:26
how do you earth a plastic jerrycan??
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Follow Up By: Rolly - Sunday, Sep 13, 2009 at 15:20

Sunday, Sep 13, 2009 at 15:20
They are self earthing, but they have to be in contact with 'earth'.

On the ground or the pump nozzle in constant contact with the container.
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Follow Up By: fisho64 - Sunday, Sep 13, 2009 at 18:28

Sunday, Sep 13, 2009 at 18:28
ok-now I know you're having a lend of me!
You're car is never earthed, sits on rubber tyres. The earthing thing is that the nozzle should be connected to a metal part before fueling commences as with aircraft.
They have an alligator clip attached to nozzle thats connected before nozzle goes in.
But auto refueling simply isnt set up that way. Why I dont know but it doesnt seem to cause a problem.

Cant say Ive ever noticed a sign saying to put on ground? Not to say there isnt but it cant be very prominent?
I do see the "No Cheques" and "pay before driving off" though!
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Follow Up By: Russ n Sue - Sunday, Sep 13, 2009 at 20:30

Sunday, Sep 13, 2009 at 20:30
G'day fisho,

You are partially correct. Your car isn't earthed fully. The carbon in tyres will allow leakage to earth but it is a high resistance path and the discharge can be slow. Your car can build up a static charge and then, just like a capacitor, store that charge for a while. If you place an earthed nozzel to a statically charged car it could create a spark, and susbsequently a fire.

For this reason, the "earth" of the bowser should also be resistive, acting to limit the current flow. Fuel tankers actually earth the vehicle first, before any other actions take place, in order to eliminate static.

The poor chap in this scenario may have been a victim of heat or static. Generators have rubber feet for vibration damping. Thus a generator can also build up a charge. The gerry can can also be charged. A spark could occur when the two items are brought into contact and the charge in each tries to equalise. If the generator was earthed (and it is recommended that generators are earthed for electrical safety reasons when operating) and the fuel container was placed on the ground for a few seconds, then you could eliminate static being an issue in this instance.

In the circumstance described above, the fuel vapour still had to be in contact with something hotter than its flash point. That might have been the generator exhaust system, or it might have been a spark from a discharge. The investigation that follows may reach a conclusion about which it was but in the mean time we should all be aware of any likely causes of fires like this.

Cheers

russ
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FollowupID: 650642

Follow Up By: Member - Russler - Friday, Sep 18, 2009 at 18:50

Friday, Sep 18, 2009 at 18:50
I thought refueling in the open had something to do with preventing fumes or vapours from building up in a well, eg. in the bottom of your boat. For that reason we used to refuel our fishing boat near home, then drive the 20 odd kms to the boat ramp before starting. Guaranteed there were no petrol vapours hanging around anymore.
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FollowupID: 651371

Reply By: mazcan barry - Saturday, Sep 12, 2009 at 23:05

Saturday, Sep 12, 2009 at 23:05
hi
well it's a sorry day and a terrible event and i sincerely hope the poor guy is recovering
not only does he have to deal with his intense injury pain but also the imense loss of both his vehicles and insurance companies are'nt very sympathetic in situation like this
but petrol is unforgiving and once it ignites it explodes everywhere and the jerry can would have exploded as well showering petrol over everything for meters it is a very volatile fliud and needs to be given far more respect than the average bloke ever gives it
believe me as i've been caught out with it
it should never be poured into the tank of any engine no mater what if it's just been stopped one small splash on a hot engine is all it takes and the force of
the explosion will blow you off your feet and thats when the container then spills and ignites causing the second explosion thats when you suddenly realize and your life flashes before you.
if you look closely at the first photo you can see the smoke starting to come off the spare tyre on the roof rack as you can all see from these pics fire is total destruction just like a spinifex fire that has destroyed many 4wd's but petrol is extremily quick my heart felt feelings go out to the owner and his family mazcan barry
AnswerID: 382914

Reply By: Member - Johny boy (NSW) - Sunday, Sep 13, 2009 at 06:27

Sunday, Sep 13, 2009 at 06:27
Hi Gone Bush,
Did you take the pics as it looks like the Genny is sitting at the front of the van and when you look at the pics it seems to be very intense in the van which would point to the fire stating in there some where ,never the less its a shame that these poor people have lost the lot but at least they survived a near miss and if insured they may be able to replace it all .
AnswerID: 382925

Follow Up By: Gone Bush (WA) - Sunday, Sep 13, 2009 at 10:13

Sunday, Sep 13, 2009 at 10:13
No, I lifted them from a caravan forum. I thought the warning in these photos could do with a wider audience.

It happened on Banka Banka Station in the NT a day or so ago.

I'm glad I ain't too scared to be lazy
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Reply By: Member - Alex B - Sunday, Sep 13, 2009 at 06:56

Sunday, Sep 13, 2009 at 06:56
Shocking scene, and I hope he recovers quickly.
Very similar thing happend to a very good friend of mine a few years ago.

My friend is very careful and thought he had all bases covered - but it was a very calm balmy evening, and the fuel vapour from his can tracked along the ground and found his pilot light - three and a half meters away - the rest is history -lost everything, 8 weeks in hospital and months of rehab. And as he said it all happened in a heatbeat.

So be mindful of pilot lights as well as hot motors.
Hope this may help someone some pain
Cheers
Alex B
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AnswerID: 382927

Reply By: Member - GeeTee (NT) - Sunday, Sep 13, 2009 at 07:58

Sunday, Sep 13, 2009 at 07:58
Hi Gone Bush (WA),

Looks like Banka Banka ? It get quite crowed there and I guess it could have been a real disaster.

AnswerID: 382931

Reply By: The Rambler( W.A.) - Sunday, Sep 13, 2009 at 09:25

Sunday, Sep 13, 2009 at 09:25
I always refuel my gene AWAY from the vehicle or camper.It is just another safety precaution.
AnswerID: 382948

Reply By: landseka - Sunday, Sep 13, 2009 at 09:47

Sunday, Sep 13, 2009 at 09:47
Yes, it was at BankaBanka Station and it happened yesterday. The photos were taken by BankaBanka Station.

Also .. "The family checked in and then the father went to refill the genny and the rest is history".

The 2 children (1 and 3 years of age) are fine but Mum and Dad are being treated for serious burns with Dad being the worse (about 20% burns).


AnswerID: 382950

Reply By: Gone Bush (WA) - Sunday, Sep 13, 2009 at 12:40

Sunday, Sep 13, 2009 at 12:40
Here's some details:

Site Link

I'm glad I ain't too scared to be lazy
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Follow Up By: Richard Kovac - Sunday, Sep 13, 2009 at 23:19

Sunday, Sep 13, 2009 at 23:19
Gone Bush

You should read the artical on your link.

"A witness said the man had gone to fill up a generator with a jerry can of fuel between the caravan trailer and the exhaust pipe of the four-wheel drive when heat ignited the fuel fumes."

"But a police statement said it was either vapour or petrol splashing on the exhaust pipe of the car, causing the caravan to catch fire."

"This quickly turned into a fireball when a gas bottle on the caravan exploded," it said."

ANNIE SANSON

September 13th, 2009


Cheers

Richard
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Follow Up By: Richard Kovac - Monday, Sep 14, 2009 at 01:37

Monday, Sep 14, 2009 at 01:37
Sorry GB

I should have read this report ABC

Richard
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Follow Up By: Gone Bush (WA) - Monday, Sep 14, 2009 at 09:50

Monday, Sep 14, 2009 at 09:50
That's OK Richard,

I posted this Thread before that article in the NT News came out. The cause of the fire was all speculation before that.

The inportant thing to bring to peoples' attention was not to be complacent with petrol.

I'm glad I ain't too scared to be lazy
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Reply By: fisho64 - Sunday, Sep 13, 2009 at 14:35

Sunday, Sep 13, 2009 at 14:35
it must have been something else that ignited it. Touch the end of your exhaust even after driving flat chat and pulling up, it aint that hot.
Even if it was running (the car) I cant see how it would ignite. You can stub a cigerette out in petrol and it wont ignite (not recommended of course). Needs a flame or spark to ignite.
AnswerID: 382975

Follow Up By: Dunco (NSW) - Monday, Sep 14, 2009 at 13:36

Monday, Sep 14, 2009 at 13:36
Bright thing to tell people....

And in the heat of the NT, everything is hot when you stop...especially when it is around the middle of the day, like this was

So many experts on this forum...

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FollowupID: 650701

Follow Up By: fisho64 - Tuesday, Sep 15, 2009 at 09:18

Tuesday, Sep 15, 2009 at 09:18
in context Dunco, in context.
You probably didnt notice the disclaimer for those less bright.

So many experts on this forum...
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Follow Up By: Dunco (NSW) - Tuesday, Sep 15, 2009 at 09:55

Tuesday, Sep 15, 2009 at 09:55
Doesn't matter whether you put a disclaimer on it or not....kids read these forums and they will try anything...gee mate, think before writing stuff like this.

So many.....ahhh forget it as it won't sink in


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Follow Up By: fisho64 - Wednesday, Sep 16, 2009 at 00:21

Wednesday, Sep 16, 2009 at 00:21
yep-better to leave it unsaid.
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Reply By: Member - Mike DID - Sunday, Sep 13, 2009 at 14:39

Sunday, Sep 13, 2009 at 14:39
I think the Title should have been "Don't refuel anywhere near a gas fridge."

I suspect it was the fuel vapours reaching the pilot light that caused the explosion.
AnswerID: 382976

Follow Up By: austastar - Monday, Sep 14, 2009 at 15:12

Monday, Sep 14, 2009 at 15:12
I have heard of a laboratory explosion from a leaking gas cylinder pooling gas on the lab floor on the weekend when the air conditioning was off and the doors closed.
Apparently a small fridge underneath a bench was enough to provide a spark for ignition.
cheers
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FollowupID: 650713

Follow Up By: Member - Mike DID - Friday, Sep 18, 2009 at 21:41

Friday, Sep 18, 2009 at 21:41
Here is a quote from the actual victim of this accident "it was the fire brigade who suggested the little finch fridge pilot light. "

"Investigation reslts into Banka Banka Caravan Fire" -
http://www.exploroz.com/Forum/Topic/72279/Investigation_reslts_into_Banka_Banka_Caravan_Fire.aspx?ky=&p=%2fForum%2fDefault.aspx%3fpn%3d3
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Reply By: Member - Mike DID - Sunday, Sep 13, 2009 at 19:13

Sunday, Sep 13, 2009 at 19:13
Fire at a servo today in Sydney caused by a person filling a Jerry Can not on the ground.

Static spark ignited the fuel. Destroyed her vehicle and one pump but the rest of the Servo was saved by the Firies.
AnswerID: 383014

Reply By: mowing - Sunday, Sep 13, 2009 at 22:15

Sunday, Sep 13, 2009 at 22:15
I have seen servos not authorise the pump to begin pumping when they see that someone has not placed a container on the ground to fill.
A terrible accident like this just reminder to everyone to be very cautious with flammables.
AnswerID: 383037

Reply By:- Sunday, Sep 13, 2009 at 22:32

Sunday, Sep 13, 2009 at 22:32
If I came across a fire like this in a caravan, my first thoughts after the occupants would be, where are the gas cylinders and if they were still on the van and if they were, I would be evacuating everybody to at least a kilometre away. Rupturing gas cylinders will erupt into a massive fireball and the ruptured cylinder could launch itself at high speed in an erratic manner.I would have the same thoughts about a burning car which was gas powered. Regards. Pauper.
AnswerID: 383039

Follow Up By: tim_c - Monday, Sep 14, 2009 at 13:23

Monday, Sep 14, 2009 at 13:23
I think you'll find that gas cylinders have a pressure vent that releases if the cylinder gets hot. The escaping gas will burn of course, but the cylinder should not explode. Should the cylinder explode, 1km won't be far enough as you get what is called a BLEVE (boiling liquid expanding vapour explosion) where the liquified gas begins to boil in the cylinder causing the cylinder to rupture, the sudden loss of pressure results in the liquid instantanously vapourising which can propel a cylinder several kilometres away.
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FollowupID: 650698

Follow Up By: dbish - Monday, Sep 14, 2009 at 13:50

Monday, Sep 14, 2009 at 13:50
Yes gas cylinders will explode if the gas cant escape fastenough from the presure relief valve. Have seen gas powered car riped apart by the explosion after thieves torched it .
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Reply By: iwilly - Monday, Oct 12, 2009 at 19:37

Monday, Oct 12, 2009 at 19:37
He was going to fill his geny, but the jerrycan had expanded in its cradle on the rear of the car. He released the cap & fumes from the can were ignited by the pilot light of a gas fridge. I was there!
AnswerID: 386742

Reply By: Maîneÿ . . .- Monday, Oct 12, 2009 at 19:50

Monday, Oct 12, 2009 at 19:50
Well that's just another very good reason to use efficient Solar power :)

Maîneÿ . . .
AnswerID: 386746

Follow Up By: Member - Pesty (SA) - Monday, Oct 12, 2009 at 20:50

Monday, Oct 12, 2009 at 20:50
Yeh fantastic idea mainey, especially if you live and camp in the south, great! flat batteries and warm beer. Wake up, not all people can use only solar.

Pesty
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FollowupID: 654317

Follow Up By: Maîneÿ . . .- Monday, Oct 12, 2009 at 21:13

Monday, Oct 12, 2009 at 21:13
Being in the South is not relevant, as a Solar systems work on "sunshine" not on heat and living even in Tasmania will get power.
The only peole who can't use Solar power are only those who choose not to use it, as a quality generator usually costs about the same as a reasonable Solar system.

This information is not relevant to this thread however

Maîneÿ . . .
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